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Topic: McCain crashed five jets, blew up USS Forrestal Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 10:23pm |
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Crashed 5 jets, plus was responsible for the Forrestal fire. Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his A-4. 'Wet-starts', done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. In McCain's case, the 'wet-start' 'cooked off' and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk's fueltank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it's 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration, along with 167 of his fellow Forrestal shipmates (including those who died later from wounds suffered). 'Wet starting' was a common practice among young 'hot-dog' pilots. McCain was quickly (they were still counting the Forrestal dead) transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred). Description: XA4D-1 Skyhawk BuNo 137812 experiencing a wet start (note the pool of JP on the ground and the tongue of flame from the tailpipe).
Edited by admin - 24 Feb 2008 at 12:08pm
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Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 10:36pm |
I was proud to support the Vietnam Veterans against John Kerry in 2004 because I believed they were correct in identifying John Kerry as a traitor. I now feel the same is true about John McCain. Interestingly the same media that tried to cover up the truth about John Kerry is doing the same about McCain. The answer is quite simple. He is a CFR guy and they will do everything they can to protect him. The internet is not something they can control. Therefore we have this information and it does not have to be filtered by the media before we hear or never hear about it.
The fact that he sponsored Shamnesty is reason enough for me to oppose John McCain. Apparently their are enough brain-dead Republicans out there to get him nominated for president. We can see the failure of party politics in America today. I have come to the conclusion that both parties are a disaster for America. Here are some videos linked on YouTube that show just what type of person John McCain really is. War hero or zero!
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Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 10:36pm |
Black Ace John McCainJohn McCain was right in the middle of the US Forrestal fire disaster in 1967. Some claim he started the whole thing by 'wet starting' his A-4 Skyhawk which caused the Zuni rocket on the F-4 to shoot a whole in the fuel tank on his A-4. McCain escaped but 167 Navy personnel died in the disaster. Where was McCain while Navy personnel were dying trying to fight the fire? No doubt he high tailed it out of the danger area. Thank you war hero John McCain! It is possible that the whole thing was an accident, just an electrical failure but why was McCain transferred immediately from the Forrestal? Why is this part of his military record not reported to us by the media? And don't forget the fact that he crashed 5 jets. He was shot down in the last one so he can't be blamed for that. But at the same time it does not excuse all his other indiscretions. He was the son of an active duty Navy Admiral so perhaps he received a lot of special treatment. He did not have a good service record - period.
The quote below is circulating chat sites online. There is no link to or verify any of the witnesses or documents to support the assertion that he was responsible for the Forrestal fire. If there ever was any I'm sure it is not available for our education as to what really happened on the Forrestal. We do know he was there. He was transferred immediately. It was his plane that was hit by the Zuni. I would like to hear from the witnesses that say he started it by "wet starting" his A-4. McCain has always been a hot headed, loose cannon. I'm sure if he did this it was just a stupid mistake. Can you imagine trying to get to the bottom of Navy documents on this mess? Interestingly McCain has been the goto guy for passing legislation that prevents us from finding out what really happened in Vietnam. Maybe John can provide the records of the investigation into the incident.
Crashed 5 jets, plus was responsible for the Forrestal fire. Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his A-4. 'Wet-starts', done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. In McCain's case, the 'wet-start' 'cooked off' and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk's fueltank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it's 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration, along with 167 of his fellow Forrestal shipmates (including those who died later from wounds suffered). 'Wet starting' was a common practice among young 'hot-dog' pilots. McCain was quickly (they were still counting the Forrestal dead) transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred).
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Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 10:40pm |
McCain almost sinks the USS Forrestal:
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Posted: 23 Feb 2008 at 2:43am |
John Sidney McCain III entered the United States Naval
Academy at Annapolis,
Maryland in 1954. Young McCain wanted to become an admiral. He planned to be
the "first son and grandson of four star admirals" to achieve such a
distinction. But that was not to be. McCain III possessed none of the innate
character and discipline traits that helped mold his father and grandfather
into great military leaders.
His father, John S. "Junior" McCain, and grandfather, John S. McCain, Sr.,
were famous four-star Admirals in the U.S. Navy. His father commanded U.S.
forces in Europe before becoming commander of American forces fighting in
Vietnam. His grandfather commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa
in 1945. Both men became highly influential in U.S. Navy operations.
At the Academy, aside being known as a "rowdy, raunchy, underachiever" who
resented authority, Cadet McCain became infamous as a leader among his
fellow midshipmen for organizing "off-Yard activities" and hard drinking
parties. Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale's Song, that
"being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck."
McCain's grades were "marginal." He drew so many demerits for breaking
curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom
of the class of 1958. Despite his low "class standing," and no doubt because
of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged
ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained
as a navy pilot.
Good Party Animal - Bad Pilot:
He spent the next two and a half years as a "naval aviator in training" at
Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida and Naval Air Station Corpus Christi
in Texas, flying A-1 Skyraiders.
While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette
and dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida." Timberg wrote
that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below
par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."
McCain Lost Five Military Aircraft
McCain, the "below par" pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the
first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi
Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in
1960.
While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying McCain lost a second
aircraft. Timberg described the crash: "Flying too low over the Iberian
Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper
stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
Unscathed, McCain returned to Pensacola Station where he was promoted to
flight instructor for Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi. The
airfield at Meridian, McCain Field, was named in honor of McCain's
grandfather.
In 1964 McCain became involved with Carol Shepp, a model from Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania, he had met at Annapolis. They were married in Philadelphia on
July 3, 1965.
Flight instructor McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer
solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg wrote that
McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" before ejecting at one thousand feet.
McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump
of trees.
The Navy dismissed the crash as "unavoidable" and assigned McCain to the
aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the
Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the Forrestal was
assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against
North Vietnam.
McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a
rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but
the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors. McCain was transferred from
the badly damaged Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. Shortly afterwards, on Oct.
26, 1967, he was shot down and captured by the Vietnamese.
Post-POW Years: Political Ambition and a New, Young, Rich Wife
Upon his release from North Vietnam and return to the United States in 1973,
McCain reunited with his wife, Carol, who had been permanently crippled in a
car accident while he was a POW.
Still yearning to become an admiral, McCain enrolled in the National War
College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. and underwent physical therapy in
order to fly again. The Navy excused his permanent disabilities and
reinstated him to flight status, effectively positioning him for promotion.
Timberg described McCain's advancement: "in the fall of 1974, McCain was
transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air
Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months
later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for
carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it
favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather,
since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path."
While Executive Officer and later as Squadron Commander McCain used his
authority to arrange frequent flights that allowed him to carouse with
subordinates and "engage in extra-marital affairs."
This was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against
adultery and fraternization with subordinates. But, as with all his other
past behaviors, McCain was never penalized; instead he always got away with
his transgressions.
Timberg wrote, "Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma
and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make
matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were
subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or
not, they became part of McCain's persona, impossible not to take note of."
In early 1977, Admiral Jim Holloway, Chief of Naval Operations promoted
McCain to captain and transferred him from his command position "to
Washington as the number-two man in the Navy's Senate liaison office. McCain
was promptly given total control of the office. It wasn't long before the
"fun loving and irreverent" McCain had turned the liaison office into a
"late-afternoon gathering spot where senators and staffers, usually from the
Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, would drop in for a drink
and the chance to unwind."
In 1979, while attending a military reception in Hawaii, McCain met and fell
in love with Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his junior, who was the daughter of
James W. Hensley, a wealthy Anheuser-Busch distributor from Phoenix,
Arizona. McCain filed for and obtained an uncontested divorce from his wife
in Florida on April 2, 1980 and promptly married Cindy on May 17, 1980.
He resigned from the Navy in 1981 and went to work for his father-in-law in
Phoenix; where he used the opportunity to make powerful and wealthy friends
in Arizona including banker Charles Keating and Duke Tully, the
editor-in-chief of the Arizona Republic. Keating was later convicted of
fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and Tully was disgraced for concocting a
phony military record of combat in Korea and Vietnam including medals for
heroism.
McCain ran for Arizona's First Congressional District in 1982. McCain won
the congressional seat. In 1987 McCain was elected to the US Senate.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1961665/posts
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Posted: 24 Feb 2008 at 12:04pm |
Are McCain's handlers playing the wrong card? By David H. Hackworth January 25, 2000
John McCain is being hailed by the press as a "genuine war hero." But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?
Or is his "war hero" status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?
For sure, McCain has the fruitsalad a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.
On a purely medal count basis, he outweighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.
McCain's valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW.
In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I'm still waiting.
I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did.
None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnamera) POWs."
McCain's Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 the day after he was shot down to 8 December 1968 reads: "His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese.
Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."
A Vietnam vet detractor says, "He received the nation's third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!"
The rest of his valor awards issued automatically every year while he was a POW read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: "By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces."
Yet McCain's conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement.
Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts. A former POW says "No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell."
The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors. And they're not talking.
Our POWs in Vietnam were treated appallingly. The Viets would either break a POW or kill him. POWs provided info beyond name, rank and serial number or they didn't come back.
Based on these stalwart men's horrific experiences, the Code of Conduct has been changed. A POW says, "Now the training is to give them something… don't risk permanent damage to health, mind or body." McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders."
McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.
David H. Hackworth died in June 2005, he was a much-decorated and highly unconventional former career Army officer who became a combat legend in Vietnam. Col. Hackworth received 78 combat awards — including a Distinguished Service Cross, a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and eight Purple Hearts — during his 25-year military career which spanned the Korean and Vietnam wars.. |
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Posted: 24 Feb 2008 at 12:37pm |
McCain's treasonous statement on Radio Hanoi:
"Things are taking place in a favorable opinion. The United States at present seems to be standing alone. So much is its isolation"
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Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 5:56am |
Someone claimed that wet starting a jet couldn't cause a Zuni rocket to fire, but the US Navy itself claimed it was something much cooler than that which caused the one on the USS Enterprise to fire off--ANOTHER of the McCain trinity:
"A fire aboard Enterprise on 14 January 1969, resulting from detonation of a MK-32 Zuni rocket warhead overheated by exhaust from an aircraft starting unit, took 27 lives, injured 314 and destroyed 15 aircraft. Repairs to the ship were completed at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, in early March."
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rstaff
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Posted: 03 Apr 2008 at 6:14pm |
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I was on the forrestal July 29,1967. I was on the flight deck and saw my squadrons Phantom fire the Zuni into Nc Cains plane. He did not do a hot start. His tailpipe was hanging over the flight deck. There was no aircraft behind him. That is not how aircraft are staged on the deck prior to launch. You people who have never been on a carrier need to get a life, you have no idea what you are talking about. McCain was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. When we went back to Norfolk, He Volentered to transfer to the Oriskany to finish his tour.
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Posted: 10 Apr 2008 at 2:48am |
Originally posted by rstaff
I was on the forrestal July 29,1967. I was on the flight deck and saw my squadrons Phantom fire the Zuni into Nc Cains plane. He did not do a hot start. His tailpipe was hanging over the flight deck. There was no aircraft behind him. That is not how aircraft are staged on the deck prior to launch. You people who have never been on a carrier need to get a life, you have no idea what you are talking about. McCain was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. When we went back to Norfolk, He Volentered to transfer to the Oriskany to finish his tour. |
So we have one witness who said he did hot start it, and another who says he didn't? Which do we believe?
Knowing the track record of reverse ace McCain, not to mention the track record of his father who GROSSLY DISHONORED the dead and wounded from the USS Liberty [the MOST heinous attack on this nation, EVER], I'm more inclined to believe the other witness.
Are you familiar with the USS Liberty? Are you familiar with the THREATS which were made against the LIVES of any crew member who told the TRUTH about it? Did you know that 60 EYEWITNESSES were never even asked one single question about it? Are you certain the same thing didn't happen, AGAIN, on the USS Forrestal? As a U.S. Military Man, are you willing to let your fellow MILITARY MEN be so grossly dishonored by our ENEMY?
Did you read Ward Boston's certified, notarized, public statement? Did you read how our ENEMY insulted and slandered and threatened him for it? Are you willing to let these FELLOW MILITARY MEN die without ever seeing justice done?
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